Comments on: Onshore wind: Planning or Building, which one is the real problem? http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/ Life post oil and post carbon Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:45:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: dale http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-325 dale Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:26:37 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-325 @ James - thanks for this link James. I took a look and read some of the posts (that was just as interesting). My view of this device is that it won't come close to a wind turbine in efficiency, even if it can be made to work. The mechanical loads and stresses from the reciprocating nature would be a real handful too. Would make a good water pump but not electricity generator I think. Cheers. @ James - thanks for this link James. I took a look and read some of the posts (that was just as interesting). My view of this device is that it won’t come close to a wind turbine in efficiency, even if it can be made to work. The mechanical loads and stresses from the reciprocating nature would be a real handful too. Would make a good water pump but not electricity generator I think. Cheers.

]]> By: James http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-315 James Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:46:44 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-315 Hey Dale, I wasn't sure how best to show you this link so I picked a post that seemed relevant. As you are in the wind energy business I thought you might be interested in this, or probably already know about it. It is a wind wing which claims to be more efficient than a propeller. http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1883/ But I'm no expert, just a curious individual ;-) Hope it's of some interest. Thanks, James =-) Hey Dale,

I wasn’t sure how best to show you this link so I picked a post that seemed relevant.

As you are in the wind energy business I thought you might be interested in this, or probably already know about it.

It is a wind wing which claims to be more efficient than a propeller.
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1883/

But I’m no expert, just a curious individual ;-)
Hope it’s of some interest.

Thanks,
James
=-)

]]> By: paul http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-284 paul Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:56:03 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-284 Hiya Jeff, Thanks for the comment. I just thought I would let you know that <a href="http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/06/26/a-week-in-the-life-of/" rel="nofollow">Dale pretty much answered your question in his post today</a>. Essentially - we think the answer is no unfortunately. Hiya Jeff,

Thanks for the comment. I just thought I would let you know that Dale pretty much answered your question in his post today. Essentially - we think the answer is no unfortunately.

]]> By: Jeffrey Lam http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-283 Jeffrey Lam Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:58:34 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-283 I’ve got a question. I was just reading in the Independent yesterday their cover story. It mentioned plans to change planning laws that give the powers to grant or deny permission for such things as airport expansion, nuclear power statiions, road widening, reservoirs to a group appointed by the government. Will onshore wind farms be affected by this if it goes through? Jeff I’ve got a question. I was just reading in the Independent yesterday their cover story. It mentioned plans to change planning laws that give the powers to grant or deny permission for such things as airport expansion, nuclear power statiions, road widening, reservoirs to a group appointed by the government. Will onshore wind farms be affected by this if it goes through?

Jeff

]]> By: dale http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-245 dale Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:54:35 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-245 @ Damon Hart-Davis - Thanks Damon. If I can help with the role search in some way let me know. Cheers. @ Damon Hart-Davis - Thanks Damon. If I can help with the role search in some way let me know. Cheers.

]]> By: Damon Hart-Davis http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-226 Damon Hart-Davis Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:46:19 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-226 Dale, that 12% stat is amazing. That really *is* making a difference! I need to find myself a role where I can apply my systems skills to good effect like that! Rgds Damon Dale, that 12% stat is amazing. That really *is* making a difference! I need to find myself a role where I can apply my systems skills to good effect like that!

Rgds

Damon

]]> By: dale http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-225 dale Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:32:07 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-225 @Stuart – You’re right that Shells decision was driven by rising costs, but that’s an offshore decision and an offshore problem. It’s not actually the rising price of turbines, that *is* happening, but the bigger deal for the offshore guys is the rising cost of steel. They need an awful lot of steel for their foundations and the cost of that has risen significantly in the last 12 months or so. Economics and rising costs are not holding back onshore I can assure you, it is planning both pre and post consent, at the heart of it. Ecotricity could def do so much more if this changed. But would be always be a minnow, indeed are we a minnow now? I bumped into an interesting statistic the other day, Powergen (or E.on as they now are) have 200MW of wind energy in the UK – and some 6 million plus customers. Ecotricity has 50 MW of wind energy, around one quarter of what Powergen has, with just 35,000 customers – less than 1% of their customer base. We may be small but I think our impact is in the same league even now. In England where we focus our efforts we have over 12% of the total (onshore) wind energy capacity. Cheers. @Stuart – You’re right that Shells decision was driven by rising costs, but that’s an offshore decision and an offshore problem. It’s not actually the rising price of turbines, that *is* happening, but the bigger deal for the offshore guys is the rising cost of steel. They need an awful lot of steel for their foundations and the cost of that has risen significantly in the last 12 months or so. Economics and rising costs are not holding back onshore I can assure you, it is planning both pre and post consent, at the heart of it.

Ecotricity could def do so much more if this changed. But would be always be a minnow, indeed are we a minnow now? I bumped into an interesting statistic the other day, Powergen (or E.on as they now are) have 200MW of wind energy in the UK – and some 6 million plus customers. Ecotricity has 50 MW of wind energy, around one quarter of what Powergen has, with just 35,000 customers – less than 1% of their customer base. We may be small but I think our impact is in the same league even now. In England where we focus our efforts we have over 12% of the total (onshore) wind energy capacity. Cheers.

]]> By: Stuart http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-209 Stuart Tue, 27 May 2008 12:07:32 +0000 http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/05/12/onshore-wind-planning-or-building-which-one-is-the-real-problem/#comment-209 Sorry - not to have replied earlier - I was enjoying a sojourn in France. Only delay was getting behind a trailer load of wind turbine blades - very impressive. The landscape is realy being transformed. They have come from nowhere to overtake the UK in wind and are aiming at 12.5Gw by 2012. How much would you bet for the UK by then - about 4/5Gw at current build rates? Which means the great majority of French electricity will be fossil free with their 70% nuclear generation. I guess they will be the first country grid to face the problem of having to cope with fluctuating peak requirements with systems built for base load (nuclear) and opportunistic (wind). It will be interesting to see what proportion of fast firing fossil they will need to maintain guaranteed supply through the peaks of demand and the lows of wind. Also a demonstration that nuclear and wind do not have to be foes - but that's another discussion. You are right to say I included on & offshore wind. But it isn't consents (or even detail consents) that's stopping the majors building is either. The Shell decision was because of rising costs. And rising costs are directly attributable to short supply of turbines. It doesn't matter about consents if you can't get the turbines. Increased prices will encourage more investment in the industry but that will take a long time unless governments/industry can together create an a rapid increase in production. We have 5 or 6 major manufacturers. Amazingly none British with our history of powering stuff with propellers and some of the best wind tunnels, aerodynamicists and aerospace industries. I wonder if some EU/HMG support in this area would be better at delivering turbines faster at lower cost enabling the consented backlog to disappear I use and root for ecotricity and know onshore planning system is YOUR major showstopper and needs to get sorted. Being sorted would allow ecotricity to grow exponentially. Even so it will still be a minnow against the majors. And I'm not convinced we would see the same step change there. Indeed your spend comparisons would tend to suggest that right now. Its just strange that EDF can do so much in France and so little here ... Sorry - not to have replied earlier - I was enjoying a sojourn in France. Only delay was getting behind a trailer load of wind turbine blades - very impressive. The landscape is realy being transformed. They have come from nowhere to overtake the UK in wind and are aiming at 12.5Gw by 2012. How much would you bet for the UK by then - about 4/5Gw at current build rates?

Which means the great majority of French electricity will be fossil free with their 70% nuclear generation. I guess they will be the first country grid to face the problem of having to cope with fluctuating peak requirements with systems built for base load (nuclear) and opportunistic (wind). It will be interesting to see what proportion of fast firing fossil they will need to maintain guaranteed supply through the peaks of demand and the lows of wind. Also a demonstration that nuclear and wind do not have to be foes - but that’s another discussion.

You are right to say I included on & offshore wind. But it isn’t consents (or even detail consents) that’s stopping the majors building is either. The Shell decision was because of rising costs. And rising costs are directly attributable to short supply of turbines.

It doesn’t matter about consents if you can’t get the turbines. Increased prices will encourage more investment in the industry but that will take a long time unless governments/industry can together create an a rapid increase in production. We have 5 or 6 major manufacturers. Amazingly none British with our history of powering stuff with propellers and some of the best wind tunnels, aerodynamicists and aerospace industries.

I wonder if some EU/HMG support in this area would be better at delivering turbines faster at lower cost enabling the consented backlog to disappear

I use and root for ecotricity and know onshore planning system is YOUR major showstopper and needs to get sorted. Being sorted would allow ecotricity to grow exponentially. Even so it will still be a minnow against the majors. And I’m not convinced we would see the same step change there. Indeed your spend comparisons would tend to suggest that right now.

Its just strange that EDF can do so much in France and so little here …

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