New Green Jack New Green Jack

74 responses to “The Green Union Hi Jack”

    • Grilla Login

      Spending too much time in close proximity to radioactive material can warp the human mind into believing strange things, for instance: that the theft of someone else’s property is acceptable, Green Britain is fair game for French France, and, that Nuclear is Green.
      The sage and onion advice from Grilla is avoid radioactive material at all costs and at every turn.

        • Hastalavista

          And presumably you’ll be making a donation to the family of Alberto Korda for ripping off his iconic ‘Che’ photo in your zero carbonista picture……

            • Lookaround

              The ‘carbonista’ blog logo’s not really going to have the same consequences, is it now?

              One’s a massive greenwash campaign encroaching on the PR efforts of a small company trying to do something good. The other is a blog logo dissociated from the cause who’s image it has borrowed, in a different context, with no potential to do harm.

              I would ignore you but you have annoyed me just that much…

    • cathy scicluna

      More power to you…Green power that is! How dare they!!! The best of luck with all you do.

    • Martin

      Good on you – I saw these EDF flags three weeks ago and at first thought ‘great ecotricity are doing some ‘big’ advertising’ then realsied who it was :-(

      This has to illegal

      btw – when will you do some ‘big’ advertising?

    • TIN TIN

      saw a ‘greenjacked’ London cab the other day, would you adam and eve it.

    • chloe

      Typical of some large company, think they can stomp on the little guys…well theyd better think again. bring on the law suit i say.

    • Mitchell

      Dishonesty and deception seems a strange choice as a basis for any customer relationship. I just hope that enough noise is made that the media and the general public get to find out and give a resounding “NON!” to their power and their hypocrisy.
      It does beg the question why, if they’re claiming such Green credentials, they haven’t started with their own back yard first; after all, France has a similar sized population as us.

    • Xena

      Is Ecotricity able to take some legal action on this?

    • paul

      Here’s a thought – let’s try and get more people to sign up to the grass roots Green Britain Facebook group than are fans of the EDF page? We are half way there already.

      I am thinking it would help show that not all of the UK is so easy to greenwash…

      What do you reckon?

    • Dan W

      This is outrageous! Dale , did Ecotricity not have some kind of TM on the green Jack or it’s promotional artwork? This is pure greenwash and a blatant attempt to identify itself as the Green option, when of course we know that it is business as usual for EDF. Besides, there must be a good case for people to complain to the advertising standards authority for an obvious misrepresentation in EDF’s advertising?

    • David hicks

      This is unbelievable that such a large company as EDF would stoop so low as to steal another companies branding.

      This could be a opportunity for ecotricity.
      My advice would be to start your own advertising campaign now
      and take them to court to force them to stop using your green flag.

      When you win the court case the product recognition will be huge.

    • TR

      I’ve never been EdF’s biggest fan but I just can’t see that they could’ve been unaware of Ecotricity’s use of the green Union Flag.

      EdF would’ve known that this campaign would come under criticism (and rightly so IMO) so any responsible company would’ve double & triple checked their standing before going ahead with it.

      I really hope that something can be done about this. It’s about the big six were taken down a peg or two and I’m hoping that Dale is the man to do just that!!

    • Gavin

      This is blatant greenwash by Electricite de France. It is designed to mislead and is liable to confuse.

    • Stuart

      After them Dale. I wonder if ASA will be your friend? Deliberate confusion with a competitor breaches several of their regs.

      However please be careful on the nuclear/froggie thing. You can be pro wind & pro nuclear. Even pro-French. A journey through France quickly demonstrates that they are far more serious about land based windpower then the UK. Not just serious but have quickly overtaken us with delivered and commissioned windpower. See chart on this page:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power

      The nearest anybody has got to non CO2 emmission electricity generation. Where driving an electric car will do way less damage than here.

      Stuart

        • TR

          France SHOULD be able to embrace wind energy. There’s much more open land and it’s easy to ignore the complaints of the one or two people nearby than the hundreds of people shepherded into the nimby way of thinking, that you get in such a densely populated place such as the UK.

          But the figures on Wikipedia (not usually the best source of accurate information I’ll admit) show that the UK has a greater Installed windpower capacity total over the last 4 years and a higher percentage of Annual Wind Power Generation for ’05, ’06 & ’07… so we’re more than holding our own compared to larger, more sparsely populated countries like France.

            • Stuart

              The figures are not Wikipedia’s. They are from World Wind Energy Association :
              http://www.wwindea.org/home/images/stories/worldwindenergyreport2008_s.pdf

              The UK figures orginated at the BWEA and I presume France came from a similar source.

              Contrary to what you say they say in the last 4 years the UK installed 1896 MW and France 2647 MW. If you doubt these figures then a trip round France might suggest which way they erred.

              Yes, France has more land (less wind?). This is not an issue yet as Dale quite rightly says – the problem is getting access to our existing rural land – not urban. We are not running out of sites.

              So the French have a more effective way of dealing with nimbys? Precisely what Dale is campaigning for here.

              Why make excuses for our lack of action and attack those who are actually doing what the land wind lobby here want? Do I detect a whiff of xenophobia?

                • Stuart

                  Sorry to pile on the agony but to pick up on your last point – we generate a higher percentage of electricity from a smaller wind capacity – because the UK, unlike France, uses a higher percentage on non-electric fossil fuelled energy. This shows in the equivalent carbon footprints per capita are:
                  United Kingdom: 9.19 tonnes
                  France: 6.4 tonnes
                  (source House Of Lords Answer: http://www.epolitix.com/latestnews/article-detail/newsarticle/lords-briefing-uk-carbon-dioxide-emissions/)

                  So the UK uses more fossil fuel and are increasing or planning to increase our fossil fuel capacity. The French have more non-fossil plant (inc wind) and are building more non-fossil (inc wind) than us. And yet we are “holding our own”. Now we are behind and falling further behind.

                • TR

                  Sorry, for some reason I took the ‘Installed windpower capacity’ figures to be individual yearly amounts not the running total as it’s increased.

                  My point was just that in the UK, it’s harder to find empty land that isn’t protected and isn’t within complaining distance from large numbers of local nimbys. But if it’s xenophobic to simply compare population per square kilometre then I don’t think I’ve got long before the political correctness police (or should that be the ‘PC’ PCs) come and get me :)

                  I’m not making excuses for lack of ambition. I’m saying that people like Dale are doing brilliantly with what (and who) they’ve got to work with/against

    • David hicks

      How the mighty have fallen.
      EDF are currently have 1/3 of there Nuclear power stations shut down because it is too hot in France.
      The lack of water means they had to close inland power stations.
      (See The Times paper today)

      Is this divine intervention? because they have lied and cheated.

      They have had to ask special permission from the french government to release hot water from the power stations into the rivers.
      Great the company that pretends to be green is now polluting french rivers with the permission of the Government.
      They are currently buying in huge amount of electricity from the UK because so many of there power stations are shut down.

      I have a idea to solve the UK power problem
      Invest heavily in Wind solar and wave power sell it to the french
      when they need it.
      Then when the Wind does not blow and the sun does not shine.
      just buy the power back from the French.
      But above all do not put any money into Nuclear power
      it expensive dangerous and a waste of time.

        • paul

          Brilliant comment David – thanks – you made my week end with a smile :)

          (Hope you don’t mind – I added the link)

    • Grilla Login

      Put the wind up wrong-doers!!

    • David hicks

      Have a read of this from the Green car web site
      It seems that EDF are making a habit of stealing companies branding or name.

      The government’s Technology Strategy Board recently announced a £25m trial of 340 electric vehicles in Oxford, Glasgow the West Midlands and the north-east. The package also includes support for more than 500 new charging points in the next 12 months, most of which are expected to come from Elektromotive.
      The company is already the UK’s largest supplier, with more than 160 Elektrobays in operation. Initially called Juice Points, they first appeared in Westminster in 2006 in a tie-up with EDF Energy. However, the name was later dropped after NPower alleged it breached its NPower Juice trademark.

      I hope that EDF will be stopped from using ecotricity green flag in the same way they could not use the juice name.
      When are these companies going to realize that you cannot just walk over people.

    • Justin Noe

      Can anyone brand the British flag? I’m certainly not offended that a French company should want to wave a British flag, I rather find this more of a sign of envy. I certainly hope Ecoticity does not enter any legal battles on the issue as I believe this could waste an awful lot of money that could be better spend on renewables.
      Why not build lots of Ecotricity wind turbines in France and sell them the idea of a French Green day with a green Tricolor?
      You could compete to see who is most green. I’m sure you would win hands down Dale and become an international company in the process. I’d be able to help run operations in France, I speak the laguage :)
      I’ve always felt this is a global issue and we really have to put our differences aside. No one can fight climate change on their own surely.

        • TR

          I think you can brand the British flag… or at least if one company uses it, it stops other companies who are in the same market from using it.

          I seem to remember there being something with British Airways and Virgin and the designs on the tails of their planes.

            • Justin Noe

              Unless you own full copyright to a logo or brand you are unable to stop competitors to use the same or similar imagery. That is the point of copyright. To my knowledge no one can claim copyright on the Union Jack as it is a national flag.
              I believe that Richard Branson’s libel case against Lord King and British Airways in 1992 to which you refer was actually over a series of dirty tricks. Mainly uncompetitive behaviour and breaching article 86 of the Treaty of Rome by loading thousands of tickets for Gatwick flights into bucket shops at loss-making prices. To be honest there was much underhandedness but none was over the use of the Union Jack.
              Don’t get me wrong I’m no EDF supporter but I worry that you may be playing straight into their hands. Ecotricity will find this a painfully costly battle and a real distraction from the far more honorable task of building wind turbines.
              Why stoop to their level? No one in their right mind is going to confuse EDF with Ecotricity but perhaps EDF would like you to. This means companies like Ecotricity are hurting companies like EDF! I don’t believe that “Green day” is any threat to Ecotricity. It’s Ecotricity that is challenging the large companies as it grows with confidence.
              I also believe that a series of high profile stunts such as the “Green bird” and “Nemisis” are having an effect on the public’s perception of wind energy and sustainable living. It’s no longer just a hippy ideal it’s a technological revolution that all can embrace.
              I look forward to Dale’s next grand step as long as it’s not a court case.

                • Damon Hart-Davis

                  Copyright wouldn’t the main issue here IMHO, or even necessarily trademark rights, but rather ‘passing off’ as Ecotricity and deceptive practices in the greenwashing.

                  IANAL.

                  Rgds

                  Damon

                • TR

                  My point wasn’t about any libel case… just a passing remark about when British Airways stopped using the Union Flag on their planes, Virgin started using it.
                  Though obviously differentiating between planes is slightly more serious and that may be the reason that only one company can use it in that situation

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Dale,

      I believe that Gordon Brown’s brother works for EDF.

      Wikipedia says:

      “Andrew Brown has been Head of Media Relations in the UK for the French-owned utility company EDF Energy since 2004″.

      Is that the reason they consider themselves to be British?

      Perhaps that is also why they seem to get preferential treatment in being awarded the spoils of the British nuclear industry. What ever any of us think of nukes, it is us British taxpayers who have paid for it.

      I have an ominous feeling that in a situation scarily like the National Express / East Coast Main Line debacle that has so recently sullied our media headlines, EDF are likely to walk away from British nukes at some point in the future, leaving us taxpayers once again to clear up the mess.

      Be careful who you pick a fight with!

      Conspiracy theorist – Moi?

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello again,

      Just a couple of other things …

      Did Ecotricity ever trademark, register the design or otherwise protect the intellectual property of the green union jack? If so, I think you would have EDF bang to rights (excepting any undue influence they might be able to bring to bear on the case, of course – see my previous posting above).

      What is a foreign, nationalised company doing pretending to be a competitor in a free market in the provision of strategically important public services? I think there is a yawning chasm of conflicted interests in EDF’s presence in the UK. At least the German players, E.ON and RWE (npower), are public companies and answerable to their shareholders and stock exchange rules and not de facto instruments of a foreign state.

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

    • Mr John Pritchard

      I am anti nuclearand totally support all you can do to
      make Britain a green and pleasant land for us to live in.
      Who do these people think they are.This sort of thing makes me livid with anger.Making lots of money seems
      O.K.no matter what some people do to get it.EDF stinks.

        • Xena

          Agreed. We need to get the UK totally powered by renewable and Ecotricity are the only energy company committed to this.
          All the others are just in it for whatever profit they can make and they don’t care a damn about our world or its future

    • MW

      On a similar theme, check the logo for this train company.

      http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/home

        • Xena

          Erm… I don’t get it….
          Apart from the font being very slightly similar to Ecotricity’s logo I don’t see anything significant

    • Dave

      @jonny

      “Is that the reason they consider themselves to be British?”

      I’d suggest that the reason they consider themselves British is that their 13000 employess are nearly all British (they would be – the companies that EDF Energy bought still have the same British staff that they had before being bought). Still, don’t let a bit of xenophobia hold you back.

      By the way, Plymouth Argyle have had a green union flag for years.

      Did Ecotricity steal the idea?

      Or is it just that it’s bleedin’ obvious? Duh!

        • Jonny Holt

          Hello Dave,

          Of course I am not impugning the British nationality or moderate patriotism of the vast majority of EDF employees in the UK, the staff you so rightly describe as having been “bought”.

          I just question the opacity of EDF at the corporate level, whose apparent desire to wrap themselves in the flag is at odds with the truth that they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the French nationalised parent company, a fact about which they seem remarkably coy.

          I do not believe that it is xenophobic to point to the evasive behaviour of a company when it strongly implies itself to be something it is not. I also find it disquieting that EDF seems to get such an easy ride from our current government, particularly given the potential for nepotism and graft.

          I am no football fan and have not been able to find any reference to a green union jack on Plymouth Argyle’s website.

          Most serious is the fact that their use of this device has recent, published and widely known precedence (by Ecotricity) in exactly the same area of business.

          I would have thought trademark law would be clear on this – particularly if use of the green union jack as such a device, branding or logo has been registered by Ecotricity. Certainly there appears to be a clear case of “prior art”, the legal description of this type of intellectual property infringement.

          Whether, with hindsight, it is obvious to use a green union jack is not an issue. The fact is that in the commercial sector both companies operate in, Ecotricity used it first.

          Hello Dale,

          I see from a television advert earlier this evening that EDF are planning to adopt 10th July as “Green Britain Day” or some such greenwash. While it might be a noble sentiment in the right hands, could not an injunction be sought to prevent them from gaining ill-deserved kudos?

          Have you registered any complaint with the ASA?

          Best regards,

          Jonny.

    • Shaolin Twelve

      So sorry to hear that EDF is playing dirty, but not really surprised.

      EDF are no doubt, fully aware of what they are doing, and in all probability have entered into this with ‘eyes wide open’.

      It seem to me to be a tactic to drown smaller businesses (competitors), under a mountain of legality and lawyers.

      Being a National Corporate entity, it can afford to loose a case regarding ‘Branding’ infringement, the real benefit they would likely gain, is causing Ecotricity to be tied up, potentialy for years, in expensive litigation.

      Make note of the ‘corporate mind’ that is behind Japan’s Whaling activities. Their thinking appears to be that as long as they hunt whales, it doesn’t matter how much they are fined, they just pay it, and go back next year to do the same again, effectively sticking up the V’s at International Law.

      The situation with EDF, though different in obvious ways, is the same. Large corporations will always use every tactic that is Legally available to them, and where they choose to bend and break the law, you can bet that they have a plan.

      Corporations ARE their own law, and any amount they are fined can always be recouped from us, so long as they are careful with their ‘image’ (something hard to destroy when all your mates are in the right places).

      I only found out about Ecotricity today, and am shocked (though I shouldn’t be) that what’s happening here clearly demonstrates that ‘global warming’ can’t be the real issue, or corporations like EDF would realise that what they are doing ultimately (when actual costs are counted), is increasing their carbon footprint (just think of all the people, documents, transportation that are needed over the course of a court-case).

      Good luck Dale, I hope to be a customer soon, so that’s one more to your side.

      Shaolin Twelve

    • Jeremy

      Wow, that’s pretty shameless, even without the Union Jack thing. Sad to see Eden Project on board with it too.

      Let’s hope it backfires on them.

    • paul

      Heya all,

      Dale is a bit too ‘preoccupied’ at the mo (that’s prob putting it too mildly) to come back on this thread right now, but he did ask me to say thanks for all the comments and support and that there’s a little summary of what we are up to on this over on BusinessGreen if you are interested. It kind of answers the legal questions.

      Paul

    • Duncan

      Another multinational jumping on the green bandwagon and stealing other peoples’ ideas. Shame on them. Have you contacted the media?

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Everybody,

      I have just e-mailed the Eden project on

      http://www.edenproject.com/contact-us/index.php

      to express my disapproval of their association with EDF. I suggest that others do the same if you agree with me that it casts them in a poor light.

      If Tim Smit and his very worthy organisation realise that their reputation (and business model) is likely to suffer as a result of this liaison, I am sure he will do the decent thing.

      Pass the idea on to like minded individuals and organisations. It might get somewhere!

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

    • Grilla Login

      EDF have managed to taint the Eden Project, mefinks. Now, every time I see its distinctive form all I can think of are the ugly domes of EDF nuclear reactors!!

    • Chris

      Good luck with taking EDF to the cleaners Dale. If nothing else this case will be a chance to highlight the hypocrisy of EDF and their campaign.

    • Des Fleet

      id contribute fifty quid to a poster campaign highlighting nuclear ambitions (in our back yard)of edf….maybe including the face of gordon browns brother ………saying….hi im goron browns brother a. i m also head of media relations for electricity de france(edf)..the company who wants to build a load of dangerous nuclear thingies in your back yard…gordon is very helpul being prime minster and all……….and if your too busy to worry about it …i will get lots of money from….EDF…..ENERGY. for DAFT. F…..S.

    • Leo

      Dear Mr X

      Thank you for your recent complaint about EDF Energy.

      We have received a number of complaints about the current campaign and it is being investigated further. You complaint has been added to the group and you will be contacted in due course with further information.

      Thank you for your patience.

      Kind regards

      Laura Edwards
      (Advertising Standards Authority)
      http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/complaints_form/

    • Michael Horsnell

      Bloody cheeky buggers!
      What a con the nuclear industry is offering…. Nuclear power is emission free!!!?! What about the dangerous radioactive toxic waste that is being dumped in the ground umm for our kids to sort out!!
      Nuclear power is eco friendly???!!
      Clever technology apart from the radioactive toxic waste that we don’t know what to do with! Apart from dumping in the ground
      We need nuclear energy!!! Like a starving man, needing a mouldy smelly sandwich!!
      We should be selling electricity to the French anyhow! And the Germans and the Dutch, etc, etc.
      Take them to the cleaners Dale.

    • Grilla Login

      Now British Gas has questioned EDF and their Green Britain Day charade.

      …Though they neglected to question the fact it was Greenjacked from Ecotricity, or that EDF are Nuclear and 85% French government-owned, and burn vast amounts of coal to produce electricity.

      The danger is that in the name of climate change, Britain will be submerged under a sea of corporate green wash that will dilute and subvert the true meaning of the word Green.

      Have them believing Green is nuclear, Green is gas, Green is EDF and British Gas.

      Most damaging of all, it may give the British public cause to question Green altogether…

      In the wrong hands, that word Green is a weapon of mass destruction in trust.

    • David hicks

      I had a letter from the Advertising Standards Authority
      saying that they had received my complaint about EDF using the Green flag which Ecoticity started using years ago.

      More people need to complain so that we can bring down these corporate bullies.
      It can be like David and Goliath we can bring down these greedy large companies like EDF.
      Please all contact the ASA and complain.

        • Rob C

          Is the ASA site down for anybody else? Too many complaints?

            • paul

              Not working for me either!

                • Xena

                  Would ya look at that? Not working for me either….

        • TR

          I haven’t had anything back yet… and the most I’ve received from EdF is an email fobbing me off for another 2 weeks.

            • TR

              I’ve now received my response from ASA… more of the same. They’ve had a number of complaints and they’re investigating

              It’s a shame they can’t do anything about EdF’s vans because the similarity there is beyond a joke.

                • TR

                  I’ve received an embarrasingly lacklustre and unhelpful response from EdF… It doesn’t answer any questions I asked, or even mention the green union flag. It seems to be a generic response, which could be a good thing as it could mean they’ve received many similar complaints.

                  “Thank you for your e-mail dated 6 July 2009.

                  As a company EDF Energy have numerous environmental and social commitments.

                  Please see our website for further details on this.

                  You can view this at http://www.edfenergy.com

                  Kind Regards,

                  EDF Energy
                  08000969000

                  At EDF Energy, our challenge is to make London 2012 a turning point in the fight against climate change. You can help by joining the 2012 Carbon Challenge at savetodaysavetomorrow.com

                  By joining our 2012 Carbon Challenge you can take the first step towards saving energy, reducing your bills and helping to save the environment. Our energy saving programme provides a complete range of ongoing advice, support, products and services to help you every step of the way. Plus, as an added incentive to get you started, we’ll give you the chance to win a range of fantastic prizes including a hybrid car and London 2012 incentives!
                  Join today”

        • TR

          I’ve now received a “proper” response from ASA… and IMO it’s a load of gutless rubbish:

          “…Thank you for your recent communication.

          We are already investigating this advertisement and your complaint will be added to our file. We shall let you know what we decide in due course.

          We should make clear that, although we are investigating the points of complaint related to whether the ads misleadingly implied that EDF were a green company and a British company, we are not going to take up the concern that EDF’s use of a green Union Jack flag was an imitation of a similar image used by Ecotricity. We note the similarities between the concepts but consider that the images are different and the ads make clear that EDF are the marketer. You will note the series of TV ads was shown in succesion during the same commercial break. In any case, we consider that the points we have taken up in our investigation cover the main body of the concerns raised over the similarities between EDF and Ecotricity’s green Union Jack image….”

            • Xena

              I received exactly the same response. (A couple of weeks now)
              I don’t understand how they can think the images aren’t similar! Especially the vans

    • Jared

      All this corporate identity theft sounds very dodgy but as far as the actual green issues are concerned……….nuclear energy IS far greener than traditional power staions. People claiming that it’s not is just fear about nuclear accidents…….which is clearly a concern but a rather unfounded one when you look at the amount of the things that have run for years with no problem.

      And unfortunately, at the moment things like solar generation and wind farms just don’t generate enough power, not even close to be considered in any way efficient.

        • Michael @ Kaieteur

          Corporate identify theft is b**** cheeky, but being copied is great flattery. Except the company coping Ecotricity has very little ‘green’ credentials.
          Nuclear isn’t green or renewable at all, it doesn’t emit much carbon when running, but has toxic nuclear waste that we don’t know what to do with apart from bury it in the ground for our children to sort out.
          Nuclear is an on going burden to the tax payer and will be for many years to come.
          Solar, wind, wave and tidal energy is abundant in the UK and it makes much more financial and environmental sense to exploit these renewable resources, rather than any finite supplies, such as oil, gas, coal, nuclear.
          That is why so many governments, business’s and individuals around the world are investing in renewable energy technology.
          Greenpeace highlight a few of the problems with nuclear that are worth considering.
          http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/nuclear/problems
          Regards
          Michael

        • TR

          It’s only greener if you believe that lowering the “carbon footprint” is the only thing that matters when it comes to cleaning up the way we live our lives… The problem is that CO2 emmisions are just a part of the problem (admitted a large part) but there are other concerns, and besides how can anyone justify replacing CO2 emmisions with radioactive waste. If we do that we’ll just give future generations an even bigger problem down the line.

    • Hastalavista

      My comment about you ripping off Alberto Korda’s Che photo seems to have gone missing.

        • paul

          Nope – it’s up there

          You replied to a particular comment thread – rather than replying to the post. A few people do that though – must look at the interface design to see if it can be made more obvious…

    • Robin

      Funny. Now the Tories are accusing Labour of stealing their green ideas from an energy paper published earlier this year. From the outside, it does look like the Brown Government has turned Cameron green – certainly wasn’t much talk of it before now. And it is a remarkable coincidence that EDF launched Team Green Britain a week before this major new ‘Green’ policy initiative. And it is striking that both EDF & HMG have gone to maximum spin to make us think nuclear is green. Maybe there is more to the Gordon and Andrew Brown connection than we thought. Andrew, Media Director EDF, commercial clout, followed by Gordon, political clout. A 1-2 of clunking fists and a punch drunk British public willing to believe Brown is Green. Just what the good doctor ordered for two brothers both near the bottom of the environmental tables. Or it’s just coincidence?
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/5836861/Tories-accuse-Labour-of-stealing-green-ideas.html

    • Jolly Green Sailor

      Hey Dale,

      Love the work Ecotricity is doing.

      Just a really minor comment. The correct term for the flag is the Union Flag. It’s only a Union Jack when flown from the jackstaff of a naval vessel.

      Keep up the awesome work!

      JGS

        • paul

          Hiya JGS – thanks for the comment. That ‘jack’ issue has been raised before (pun intended).

          It seems that this is a matter for debate though.. ;-)

          Cheers
          Paul

        • Jonny Holt

          Hello JGS,

          I have no idea whether any of the following is true.

          I have been given to believe that the etymology of the term “flag” denoted a rectangular, two-dimensional shape. Therein lies the connection between a flag as we know it and a flagstone, for example. In that sense, the Union Flag is the correct term when it is not being displayed.

          Similarly, I have heard (but I cannot remember when or where) that it is the act of raising or hoisting a flag that turns it into a “jack”. In this sense there is an obvious connection between a “jack tar” – a sailor who spent his days hoisting flags and sails and a jack as most people understand the term, a device used for lifting a car to change a wheel.

          It is the act of hoisting, and thereafter flying or otherwise displaying a flag – but particularly the Union Flag – that turns it into a jack.

          If anyone thinks this is rubbish – you could be right. Anyway, enough pedantry for now ….

          Best regards,

          Jonny.

            • Xena

              I agree. Doesn’t matter about what to call it really. and the title of this post wouldn’t sound right as the Green Union Hi Flag ;o)

              Does anyone know what’s happening with this anyway? I see EdF are still using their version of the flag all over the place…