New Green Jack New Green Jack

86 responses to “Wind Car Update – 11 of 6”

    • Jeffrey Lam

      fantastic!!! I’m really, really impressed!!!

      I guess “Dale Force” didn’t become the (admittedly silly) name for the car, but I see ExecDigital used it as the title of their article about you.

      Well done!
      Jeff

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Dale,

      Well done to you and the whole team for the effort in getting Car #01 on the road.

      Now for the difficult bit. What are your plans for commmercialising this venture – getting a return on your investment? How many more Nemeses will there be, either prototypes (in various states of customer acceptability) or eventual series production vehicles that the public might be able to buy?

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

        • Dale Vince

          Thanks Jonny. We’ve no plans for commercialisation, though we hope to build some more vehicles soon, and getting the money back (the investment) was never likely….. :)

          The return we went looking for is the kind we’ve been getting – stimulation of the debate. More on future plans soon.

          Cheers.

            • Graeme

              I work for a wind developer and own a petrol engined Lotus Elise (only used occasionall – I ride a green brompton for my usual transport). Many people in the lotus community have converted their elises to have different petrol engines in them. I would be really interested in the “non-lotus” electrical application as i would have thought that “petrol heads” would actually like the opportunity to buy this kit and look to convert track day/kit/sportscars. The performance of electric sports cars is actually amazing as you get max torque right from the off.
              Do you have a “shopping list2″?
              Graeme (fred.olsen renewables)

    • nick  chapple

      Dale & Team,

      Brilliant stuff. It must have been an exciting project to have all worked on together.

      A true British “crack squad” team

      Nick

    • Chris

      Hey Dale.

      Great progress as always. I’d be very interested to know a bit about its battery stats and the stats you think you can achieve when its finished. Also do you know how badly the cold will affect this cars battery if at all?

      A really exciting project guys. Keep it up :)

    • James

      Please keep the work going on this car and keep us up to date with new films and blog posts. It would be nice if you could set-up a wordpress blog for the engineers so we can get a better idea of the day to day challenges encountered during the development of this great project.

      Its great to see the ingenuity of British engineers in all its shining brilliance. It looks as though most of the team have been involved in traditional engineering such as body styling and mechanical component design which is know to be a firm competence of the host of engineering firms in the Midlands. Tim seems to have made some outstanding technology for this car which is unbelievable really considering he is the only person developing this pioneering electric motor and all the auxiliary technologies.

      I’ve been thoroughly interested in this development. Keep up the good work team; Hope to hear from you more frequently.

      James

    • Justin Noe

      So, I’m really sorry to harp on about this but…. If the “Nemesis” is not to be a commercial model will Ecotricity turn this into an open source project? Afterall it would be great if all that research money spent on behalf of Ecotricity customers could benifit more than it’s CEO. Maybe the project could be opened up to universities to help educate about green tech?
      I’m a little worried that at a time of economic hardship and lack of Renewable energy, this project is looking like a misappropriation of funds. Don’t get me wrong this IS a worthwhile project and has undoubtably generated fantastic avertising for Ecotricity but is this just another “concept vehicule”?
      Has Ecotricity considered entering next years TTXGP?
      Open source could mean improvements on the car you’d not dreamed about plus further recognition and collaboration.
      Good luck

        • Rob C

          What would you propose to be open source exactly? I’d be interested to hear how you’d apply a ‘GNU’ licence to something that’s proprietary in so many ways. Even discarding patents this is surely a minefield?

            • Justin Noe

              Hi Rob
              This is exactly what I mean. To allow all designs and any patents onwed by Ecotricity or it’s partners to be available under “GNU” licensing. I believe the chassis is lotus designed and may have it’s own restrictions but this isn’t where the innovation lies.
              I don’t see this as a minefield but a great way for the project to move from prototype to education tool. Very much like Linux operating systems and look where we are now. It can really speed up research when funds are limited.

                • Dave

                  check out http://www.40fires.org/ for an organisation who are already working on open source cars.

                    • Justin Noe

                      Thanks for this Dave. I was aware of the Riversimple car but had not come across this website. This is exactly the sort of project I believe the “Nemesis” should contribute to. I was very pleased to see the “Nemesis” is on show at the Science Museum in Wroughton, I hope this is just the start of things.

        • Justin Noe

          I would love to hear Dale’s response on the matter. I appreciate you are a busy man Dale but I hope you do feel this is worth considering.

    • Peter

      Hi Dale

      I’ll be keeping an eye open for nemesis on the streets of Stroud when you get her back again.

      Have you looked into the feasibility of having removable battery systems that can be easily swapped from car to car so that they can be charged (out of the car) at an ‘Ecotricity filling station’?

      Some sort of monster size rechargeable AA battery that is standard across all makes and models might be best!

      Seems to make sense to me as then you would only need to stop for 5 minutes to get fresh (already re-charged) batteries instead of plugging in for several hours of ‘down time’. The car buyer might, I guess, be willing to pay a substantial amount (the usual cost of a tank of petrol?) ‘per fill’ to pay for the cost of the battery over its lifetime as an alternative to buying a very expensive battery ‘up front’.

      Best regards
      Peter

        • Xena

          I think this is a pretty good idea… but would it be possible to get all the companies/car manufacturers to agree on a standard battery?
          And would it be possible to design different styles of car around a standard battery? I imagine this would increase production costs significantly…

            • MW

              Better place have demonstrated a battery swap station.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0WPw3p2MQ

              Looks a bit thunderbird like but very clever. With this option you wouldn’t own the battery, just pay a lease. Might work even better as a car share scheme when you pay to use the car like a self drive taxi.

              Fast charge batteries are more likely to happen IMO, some will charge 80% in 10-30 minutes.

              The problem was solved 10 years ago with a small range extending trailer which could provide charge on the go. Rent it when you need or or have it at home acting as a CHP unit unit you need it for a long journey!

                • Xena

                  Yeah, I see how this might work. But even if the owner of the station only charged the driver maybe 5 or 10% of the cost of a new battery, then it wouldn’t be very cost efficient for the driver? After a number of swaps it would have been cheaper to buy a battery and a spare for long distances
                  I don’t know if I’m making any sense here…!

    • Jonathan

      I’m a bit confused about the whole “Wind-powered” aspect of this project. Please don’t get me wrong, I think this is a great project, and a truly awesome car, but I don’t fully understand how this is wind-powered.

      Is it because Dale run Ecotricity, and obviously would plug it in at home, therefor all electricity at his home comes from a wind-based source?

      or does the car somehow reclaim / produce electricity using the wind while it is driving, or just has a breeze passing by?
      If so, can you provide a few details on it? obviously not giving all you secrets away, I’m just fascinated by the concept.

      Good luck with it, regardless.

        • Xena

          Hey Jonathan
          The car is an electric vehicle, which is charged using electricity from Ecotricity, therefore it’s wind-powered.
          (From what I gather anyways, I’m no engineer!)
          I’m also fascinated by a car that could generate it’s own electricity using the wind that is created from driving… does anyone know if such a thing exists/is possible?
          For a car that is propelled solely by the wind, check out Greenbird (I don’t have a link, but try googling)

            • Jonathan

              That actually disappoints me a bit. That would mena if I bought one, it would be a Coal-powered car. wtf?

              it’s a bit of a cheat to call it a wind-powered car, in my opinion. As I said before, I still think what the engineering team has done is an awesome piece of work, please don’t take it as a negative. however I think the “marketing” of it is quite misleading.

              just my rant of the day. Great work guys, look forward to seeing more.

                • James

                  @ Jonathan : “That would mena if I bought one, it would be a Coal-powered car. wtf?”

                  then surley you should find a green / renewable source of electricity to power your home?

                    • Zoltar

                      James,

                      I thinking you’re getting away from the point Jonathan is trying to make (apologies to Jonathan if I’ve misinterpreted you). I’ve always felt that it has been implied on the blog that this car is wind-powered in a way that other electric cars aren’t. If I went out and bought a Tesla and plugged into an Ecotricity supply, isn’t that just as wind-powered as the Nemesis?

                    • MW

                      Even a purely coal powered EV has CO2 figures comparable with a prius (~100g/km).

                      Coal ~1kg CO2/kWh
                      EV ~10km / kWh

                      EV CO2 = 100g CO2/km

                      UK typical grid figures are 300-500g CO2 so a UK EV would be producing 30-50g C02 per km. The up coming diesel hybrids are looking at CO2 figures of around 90g CO2/km

    • Xena

      I wonder if it’s possible to have a self charging car that will convert the kinetic energy that it produces from the wheels on tarmac?
      Kind of like an alternator I suppose, but different haha

        • Jeffrey Lam

          Yes I think it’s called Regenerative Braking. When you brake, the motors work in reverse and charge the battery by converting the KE back into potential energy.

          I imagine you may ask about it working even when you’re not braking. But that would slow the car down, which defeats the purpose, as you want the car to go.

          Sorry I can’t tell whether or not you are asking the question ironically…

            • Xena

              Hi Jeffrey
              No, it was actually a serious question :)
              I’m interested in this sort of thing, and how cool would it be if someone designed and built an electric car where the battery only needed an initial charge, and from then on just charged itself as it went along?
              Would never need petrol, and would never need to be “plugged in” or anything like that
              Ideas like this get me really excited (until someone tells me it’s impossible haha)

                • Jeffrey Lam

                  Hi Xena
                  I’m afraid it is impossible, at least it is in the way you describe.
                  When you accelerate the car, you convert potential energy in the battery to kinetic energy. This discharges the battery slightly. If you want to charge the battery with this kinetic energy, then you convert the kinetic energy back to potential energy, i.e. the car slows down to charge the battery. This is fine if you want the car to slow down: and this is regenerative braking. But I think you are describing charging the battery without slowing down.
                  Ah but in the above paragraph you still have a fully charged battery… you accelerate the car (discharging the battery slightly), keep to a constant speed (neither charging nor discharging), then stop when you get to your destination (charging the battery with regenerative braking). But alas, I have neglected to include air drag and rolling friction… these result in needing to draw charge from the battery to even keep to a constant speed.

                    • Xena

                      Hey Jeffrey
                      Thank you for your explanation. I see now why physics wasn’t my strongest subject in school – this stuff is complicated!
                      Forgive me for my naivety and constant questions but this really is something that interests me. How does an alternator work in a normal car? Is this the device that charges the battery? Would it be impossible to use something similar in an EV?

                    • Jeffrey Lam

                      Hey Xena,
                      only to happy to explain.
                      Yes the alternator charges the battery. When you start the engine, the engine is always turning (even if the car is stationary), and doesn’t stop until you either stall it or switch it off. The engine is powered by the fuel, so you are using the energy from the fuel to charge the battery.
                      The energy always has to add up, so if you are moving the car, the alternator is taking away some energy that would otherwise be used to accelerate the car. But if you are stationary, then you are using energy that would probably be wasted anyway.

                      Electric cars do away with the engine. No engine, no fuel tank, no alternator. If you are not burning fuel you wouldn’t want an alternator anyway. Instead of using fuel to turn the engine to work the alternator to charge the battery you just plug the car in to charge the battery. So you use electricity instead of fuel. Internal Combustion Engines (i.e. what you have in conventional vehicles) powered by fuel aren’t particularly efficient as a means of propulsion anyway, but ICE is even less efficient if it is used to charge a battery through an alternator.

                      However, there are cars that have both an electric drive and an ICE. These are hybrids, such as the Prius and the Honda Civic Hybrid. They have alternators, but like conventional ICE cars, energy from the fuel is being used to charge the battery.

                      Hope this helps

                    • Xena

                      It certainly does :)
                      Thanks Jeffrey

    • Al

      Wind powered? Sure. If you subscribe to Ecotricity and have an electric car, your electricity requirements will come from the wind. (Which is obviously not possible with a petrol or diesel driven car.) Would be nice to let the car’s wind friction help power it, but that could never be a significant fraction of the total power necessary. Could it?

        • James

          I wouldnt think so, Al.

          think of a ‘normal car’ driven by the engine, and the fuel lighting etc (dont ask me how an engine works – ‘cus i dont know!) However, there is a battery, and without an alternator that goes flat (Very quickly!)

          Now think of a car powered entirly by electric, you’d need one heck of an alternator to keep that baby charged. and potentually you could have some sort of ‘turbine’, that spins when the car drives to produce electricity, but i cannot see that it would produce enough energy required.

          so the answer to your question, i think, is ‘no’…i’ll remain open minded however ‘cus i ain’t no specialist!

            • dave

              read this link about travelling downwind faster than the wind: http://withouthotair.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-exciting-things-dii-and-dwfttw.html
              —- interesting, and confusing

                • Jeffrey Lam

                  or if you check out greenbird you will see that travelling faster than the wind has already been demonstrated, but I don’t know if it is directly downwind.

                  I’m not going to try to understand it, but if it is demonstrated, then I will just accept it (and this is coming from someone with an aeronautical engineering degree)…

                    • dave

                      greenbird is basically a sailing ship – with wheels. same principles. let’s be honest though, this is not really practical for normal, everyday use (unless you commute to work across a windy salt pan with no-one else around). For the rest of us there is walking, cycling and electric cars.

                    • Matt

                      Guys

                      I believe the travelling faster than the wind is due to something called “Apparent Wind”.

                      Imagine you’re riding a bike on a completly calm day (no wind), as you pedal forwards you experience wind on your face, there is no actual wind but this is the air resistance as you hit the air in front of you, the faster you go the more “man made wind” you feel.

                      Now imagine theres a strong natural wind from your right (called true wind). Now the force of the two winds combined feel like they are coming from diagonally to your right.

                      This is the wind that powers the greenbird. Its faster than the true wind because it also utilises the wind it creates itself from its motion and can therefore travel 3 to 5 times faster than the true wind. Oh dear I hope that makes sense!

                    • dave

                      yes Matt, you’re correct – what you’re talking about is a change of reference frame… the wind may be X m/s but the vehicle (say greenbird) is moving at Y m/s and because of the vehicle’s movement, the apparent wind speed can be much higher than X. In fact you might be interested to know that this is the same reason that wind turbines using lift (instead of drag) are able to achieve reasonably high aerodynamic efficiencies— it’s because the tip speed of the blades can be 3-5x higher than the incoming air speed.

    • Xena

      @Matt
      Thanks for the explanation… however I have a question… if the wind from riding a bike fast is coming towards you, and the true wind is coming from the side, how would that propel something? Would it not slow the motion to a certain degree? Surely the wind would have to be coming from behind(ish) to force an object to move faster?
      Sorry… my knowledge of physics is pretty limited!!!

    • Sarah

      Hey Dave
      I notice that you seem to have a fair amount of land attached to your property – maybe you could squeeze in 8 windturbines that nobody in Berkeley Vale wants. As a champion of them, you surely wouldn’t mind the constant hum of the blades, the relentless spinning of the un-natural metallic monsters?

        • Jonny Holt

          Hello Sarah,

          Who is Dave?

          Best regards,

          Jonny.

            • dave

              Sarah, if you’re referring to me, then i live in an upstairs flat. so clearly you need your head adjusting. Welcome to the forum though! It’s about time we heard from some NIMBYs.

                • Sarah

                  Sorry I meant Dale – red mist! I think everyone is a NIMBY. Who would welcome 8 wind turbines bigger than the statue of liberty 300 metres from their home. Have a look at the videos about noise and light flicker on Youtube.

                    • TR

                      Sarah,

                      Rather than just watching videos, maybe visiting a turbine is in order?!?

                      I, like Xena, have stood right underneath the turbines at Bristol Port and been across the road from the one in Nailsworth. You can barely hear anything. Certainly no whirring.

                      And as for shadow flicker as far as I’m aware that mainly occurs in bright sunshine, something which unfortunately Britain lacks most of the time. Besides Ecotricity not only take shadow flicker into consideration when building a turbine… the Turbines are turned off during particularly sunny times if shadow flicker is likely.

                      You paint a grim picture of turbines in general but barring “spoiling the landscape” (which is a personal opinion and one I don’t share) nothing you’ve said seems to relate to Ecotricity’s turbines.

            • Sarah

              Sorry Jonny – meant Dale.

                • Justin Noe

                  Hi Sarah
                  My personal opinion is that Wind Turbines are a beautiful and magestic addition to the landscape but I do realise this is not a commonly held view. I understand how it devalues property in the area and I have seen videos on You Tube of shadow flicker in peoples front rooms which is arguably unacceptable.
                  To be honest though Ecotricity jumps through many hoops to avoid these issues. There are few alternatives to Renewable electricity generation in this country and we are blessed with an awful lot of wind. There is an agreed consensus that Climate Change is due to rampant CO2 emitions from our modern lives and that Burning Fossil Fuels for Electricity generation is the biggest contributor. We can’t go on building more Coal fired power stations and Piping in Gas front abroad if we are to hit our emition targets! It will also give us much more energy security.
                  BTW turbines tend to be built on the most wind efficient sites, so it’s quite possible that Dale may own lots of land but that the area is sheltered from the wind. I’ll also let Dale fight this battle! I assume that there has been or is going to be a Wind farm built near your property, is this an Ecotricity site?

        • Xena

          Sarah
          I assume you’ve not heard of the stroud 5050 campaign… the aim of which is to find out what the people of stroud and district actually do want? I don’t think you can speak for the whole of Berkley Vale!!!
          Ecotricity’s good neighbour policy ensures that there will be little or no disruption to local residents. And also, I have stood right underneath an Ecotricity turbine, and heard no hum or noise whatsoever.
          I read an article yesterday online that suggested that unless we start building a lot more renewable sources, the UK is likely to not have enough power by 2016, possibly causing large scale blackouts… check this out http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/uk-blackouts-2016.php
          We need to do something!!!! If the NIMBY attitude continues we’re gonna be in trouble!

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Sarah,

      I believe the majority opinion on this blog is contrary to the one you seem to express about the relative monstrosity of wind turbines as opposed to other forms of power generation infrastructure.

      Generally I agree with Justin’s assertion that wind turbines are beautiful. I would go further and say the most modern are elegant and sensitive, despoiling as they do only a few square metres each of topsoil, causing no emissions beyond those deriving from their manufacture (mitigated within the first few months of operation) and the embracing of which shows us to be generous-spirited and willing to take ownership of our appetite for electricity.

      If we wish to continue our power consumption at current levels, without recourse to the building of wind turbines, we would have to adopt archaic cold-war technology and build truly monstrous nuclear power stations in the great clunking-fisted manner of the soviet era. We might also pin our hopes on the vain promise of clean coal – an idea whose practical application in the power generation industry is decades away, no matter what the PR might have you believe; it might as well be magic moonbeams. These both rely on a much greater area of land to be degraded permanently, greater cost per MW once cost overruns are taken into account and would generate considerably greater quantities of public antipathy than wind turbines.

      Perhaps there are no plans – yet – for any new build nuclear near your house? What about other less fortunate people? I note your particular interest in the Berkeley Vale and assume you are fairly close to Berkeley nuclear power station. Is it fair on other communities to oblige them also to live in the shadow of one of these rather than all of us shouldering our responsibilities? Would you like another one – or two – or more?

      In fact polling research shows that wind turbines are widely popular, particularly among those who live close to them; they have no adverse effect on property prices, our national obsession. Do not confuse volume of noise with breadth of opinion. It is true that some poorly sited installations – mainly in the US – have caused shadow flicker and noise problems in the past but these are no longer live issues due to design improvements of the turbines themselves and improved siting, taking account of local residents’ valid concerns. Recent publicity about infrasound being generated by turbines has been widely and comprehensively discredited, with the author of these scare stories exposed as a self-publicist with dubious scientific credentials. If infrasound were a problem of any significance, it would be a current topic of public debate, if only due to traffic and many other aspects of modern life. David Bellamy’s intemperate rant about how turbines “chop up birds” was similarly an outburst of the ill-informed. I take my lead from the RSPB who consider wind turbines to be preferable to the alternatives when it comes to the survival of rare or endangered species.

      Turbines positioned out at sea perhaps offer a “best of both” solution but impose significant costs on developers due to the remoteness and the harshness of the environment. While that industry is now gathering pace it is simply not able to react as quickly to our short term needs as could the onshore wind sector.

      If you need further information, unsullied by scaremongers and charlatans, I can recommend no better website on the subject than this one:

      http://www.energy4all.co.uk/energy_green.asp?ID=GEN7

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

    • Derek

      Jonny & Xena

      It might be a good idea to put your views on the following website and try and persuade the opposition to be in favour of wind power
      http://www.saveberkeleyvale.org.uk/

      Derek

        • Sarah

          Thanks Jonny
          I do understand all tho pro arguements for this and in principle I don’t have a problem with them. What annoys me is this idea that only certain people are ‘NIMBY’S’, when actually anyone who cares about their immediate surroundings would want to protect them. At the moment we look out towards fields of cattle, horses, trees and skies full of buzzards and birds. We chose to live here because of it and the compromise for us was the powerstation, motorway, proximity of a scrapyard and road and railway. Now it feels as if this area is being written off by people – especially those in Stroud who will not be impacted by the turbines – as a piece of unimportant land by a motorway. It is lovely here, the land drops away to the river plain and is the location of many happy communities and homes. We chose to move here, but the turbines will take away our choice to both stay here or leave because we will not sell our house and we do not want to be near the turbines. I am a veggie, I compost, I recycle and I buy organic when I can afford it. I am not anti-green and I take my responsibility to the environment seriously. There must be other more remote loctions for this. It comes down to money and buying the cheapest land for the best return Though perhaps more principled than many, Ecotricity is still a business.

            • dave

              Give me a break Sarah. Presumably you’ve been a car or a bus a few times in life. How could they possibly put roads down! Through pristine fields!! shocking. Presumably you have electricity in your house? How could people put up all those pylons – how UGLY!!

              If we really wanted to go back to England’s “natural state” then the entire country would be covered in forest, end to end. There is no such thing as a ‘natural state’.

            • TR

              wow… only a powerstation, amotorway, a scrapyard, roads and a railway

              Those un-natural metallic monstererous trbuine would completely destroy the asthetic of those natural features :P

            • dave

              I apologise if I came across a little harsh in the previous post. My point is, the UK is a very population-dense country. This means there is a strong chance that ANY development (wind turbines, roads, power lines, power stations, industrial complexes, supermarket sorting hubs, factories etc. etc.) will, unfortunately, be near to someone’s house. I’m sorry that it might be you in this case. However, we must as a country accept this basic fact There are only limited solutions: stop developing, or put up with things near people, or export our problems to other countries (which we already do), or shift half our population elsewhere. This is not just about wind turbines, it’s about development in general. NIMBYs (and no, we are *not* all NIMBYs) just do not seem to understand this basic truth. This point is made well in this post: http://withouthotair.blogspot.com/2009/07/where-wild-things-are.html with regard to wind turbine development.

                • Xena

                  No, we are not all NIMBYs… I would welcome a turbine near my house… except for the fact that, unlike you Sarah, I can’t afford a house in a place so beautiful as Berkley Vale. I live in a tiny inner city upstairs flat, which I love by the way, but given the choice….
                  So, at the risk of sounding harsh, people with your NIMBY attitude just need to get over themselves. I would LOVE to live in a place with trees, grass, animals AND wind turbines! What a pleasure!

                • Derek

                  It’s a statement I often make. Why are houses acceptable in the countryside but not wind turbines. It’s only a visual problem with some people.

                  Derek

                    • TR

                      I completely agree with you & Xena…

                      People never seem to have a problem with building things for their own comfort but when it comes to actually trying to do something with more substance a few people make a lot of noise & fuss.

                      I would love to be able to live in a more rural area and I’d look on at any nearby turbines with a sense of pride. As I’ve said in an earlier comment I’ve stood underneath one turbine and been across the road from another and I’m yet to hear/think of a convincing argument against them.

    • Xena

      Thanks Derek

      I feel so angry having looked through this website. These people just appear to me to be totally selfish.
      It is attitudes like theirs that do more harm than good.

      And Sarah, yes, it is lovely there and when (not if) the turbines are built there, it will continue to be lovely. These windmills are magnificent, and hugely preferable to another horrible great nuclear power station. If the energy requirements aren’t met by renewables, they will have to be met by nuclear… I for one sure as hell don’t want that.

    • Alexandra Deegan

      Congrats Dale on getting a working prototype finally pushing carbon-fibre…

      But you need to quickly tie-in with a ‘serious’ manufacturer now to keep on track…. unless you want to be a Brit-pack-small-run player…. but we all know what happened to TVR don’t we? Lol…

      (Renault and Better Place are on the move)

      Check out all 4 electrickery concepts here…

      http://www.renault-ze.com/uk/

      The Zoe ZE will do nicely for me… simple girlie name too…. sniggers

      No Drathvaderishness style spin it would seem necessary?

      However at the lower end the govt expects peeps to no longer to be able to afford their ‘own’ cars… but pool options at the local ‘service hub’ will be the green new deal… for the masses.

      However we all have to contend here in Blighty with those dastardly Chinese…. seems they already have part of the manufacturing equation all tied-up…

      http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article13640.html

      (Check out China’s Rare Earth Metal Monopoly section)

      We’ll need 2nd gen nuclear too here if we don’t want 30m Brits with regular lights out…

      Toodle-pip

      Alexandra

    • Jeremy Davis

      I think what you guys are doing is great.

      A thought for your videos: I have watched all of your videos, find them very interesting and fun to watch, however none of them have explained how the car is wind-powered in any sort of detail. It is mentioned from time to time but I can’t find anything on how you have made it work. I assume there is a turbine in the nose of the car that spins an alternator/generator that re-charges the battery, but I’d like to see how it actually works. That is the whole point of the car isn’t it? How many more miles does the turbine allow you to go? How fast does the car have to be going for it to work properly? How much power can the turbine produce? How was the nose engineered to maximize the output of the turbine?

      The point to this car and the challenge behind it (from my understanding) is the fact that the car is wind-powered. I feel like all the emphasis of the videos and articles, etc is on how sporty the car looks, how it accelerates, how it has fingerprint entry, etc. Can you guys make a video that goes into what makes the Nemesis a wind car (love the name btw), how the wind-power works (what problems/hurdles there may be with it), and why it is so much better than other electric car designs?

      Thanks,
      Jeremy

        • Xena

          Hi Jeremy

          As far as I understand (and someone please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!) the car doesn’t have an internal turbine or a linked alternator – the battery is purely charged by plugging in to mains electricity (which is supplied by turbines, hence the wind-powered)

          But I agree, a video about the in depth workings of the Nemesis would be very interesting to watch.

            • Jeremy Davis

              Then what is the difference between this car and another electric car other than its looks?

              You can’t market the car as wind-powered because most of the population does not have access to wind power. I myself live in an apartment and do not have that option. Without converting all our electric supply to wind, the car is no more “zero carbon” than any other electric car.

              The car’s design is not wind-powered, only its owner makes it thus, therefore it is not really a wind-powered car. That is very disappointing. The car is great as a high performance electric, but calling it wind-powered is misleading.

              When will someone make an electric car that performs as well as a gas-powered car and is affordable for the common person? That would be my challenge.

              This car proves nothing to the big automakers other than saying you can make a really expensive car that looks cool and accelerates faster than a gas car but has a slower top speed and a lot smaller range than comparable priced gas cars. Only the rich who are interested in conservation would be interested and that is not a large enough market to make the car profitable.

              How disappointing.

    • Matt

      Jerry, as has been dicussed quite extensively, the car doesn’t have a wind turbine on it. Its charged by electricity provided by ecotricity wind turbines.

      Cheers

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Jeremy,

      How many people would expect a fossil fuel powered car to run on dinosaur bones or ammonites?

      The fact that the Nemesis does not have an exciting and eye-catching on-board wind turbine should not be seen as a drawback. It is not just another electric car, as its prime raison d’etre is to tell the story about where the power comes from and how that power can be used. I think it exists primarily to spark the imagination.

      You start one post with “I think what you guys are doing is great” and yet less than one hour later you say “how disappointing”. Maybe you had not read the story through from the beginning – or were you gearing up towards feigned disappointment from the start?

      In UK we can elect to have our power supplied by companies which generate or sell wind derived electricity, such as Ecotricity. Perhaps you are not so fortunate.

      However, there is another Ecotricity backed wind-powered car – the Greenbird. This is probably a bit closer to a literal definition of wind power, although it would be hard to use it on the public highway.

      Dale, now that has GOT to be done! I am thinking M5 near Stroud (heading north-east, with a prevailing south-westerly) perhaps with Richard Hammond at the wheel – Clarkson would be unlikely to fit. I am sure that DETR would be happy to close the road for such a worthwhile endeavour.

      Best regards,

      Jonny.

        • Jeremy Davis

          For those of you who have been following this car for a while I’m sure the fact that the car is not powered by wind directly was clear. Also that it was meant to help raise awareness for Ecotricity was also clear. However, having watched all the videos and read a few of the most recent blogs, I do not find that information clearly stated (hence my confusion). I felt that calling it wind-powered was a bit misleading without further explanation.

          Skimming through the comments, I have found other people who were equally confused. I do think the car is great, they did some remarkable things with it. However, I think it would behoove the team to clarify that the car is meant to promote wind power to the grid; that is was not designed with wind directly powering the car.

          I am sorry if I missed where this was stated clearly (it is not in the description of the blog-which is most easily accessed). I have not read through every post and most people who visit the site would not. I just found out about the car yesterday and to expect me to have read the history from the beginning (and then to imply that I was planning on bad-mouthing the car from the beginning) is a bit ridiculous. I am merely suggesting that it might be beneficial to Ecotricity and the team to make the wind-powered aspect more visible and clear to a web-”Surfing” audience.

          I had been excited to find the car because I thought someone had finally discovered a way to use wind turbines on a car, overcoming the weight and drag issues it creates. I had been surfing to find that particularly. So when I found the Nemisis, I was very excited for that reason. After spending time watching all the videos and skimming through posts I was still excited but wanted to hear more about the wind-power Finding out there was none, my disappointment matched my previous excitement.

          Ecotricity means nothing to me because I live in Ohio, USA. We are FAR behind in moving toward wind power (for some reason many people here think wind turbines are a blight on the landscape). Because of this, the car’s mission to promote Ecotricity was largely lost on me. The US automakers would also not see the point because it could not be marketed here as a zero carbon car.

          The car is still a great accomplishment and a step in the right direction. I was just disappointed because I thought it was the car I was looking for and it wasn’t.

            • dave

              Jeremy. Ecotricity have also been involved with a ‘true’ wind powered vehicle, see http://www.greenbird.co.uk/
              However I think electric vehicles and a renewable energy grid are the future, not ‘wind’ cars.
              Read this free book http://www.withouthotair.com which makes the case very well. See what you think.

    • Saz

      Yep, have to agree with everyone above about how it is completely misleading to call it wind-powered, especially when you seem to deliberately be comparing it to Greenbird which directly uses wind power.

      Even more so having read Dale’s bit a few months ago on how pointless most all-green tariffs are as the actual energy we get from the grid is a mixture of whatever’s been put there by all the different energy companies. We could claim we paid for the green bit, but it doesn’t mean the energy we’re using doesn’t cost the earth, in more ways than one! Dale might be able to plug directly into a wind turbine but for anybody who uses the mains, at the moment this would be what, a 90%ish brown-energy-powered car? Even those who pay their bills to Ecotricity basically have to use the same energy as everybody else, with whatever averaged-out proportion of green energy comes from all the electricity companies put together, which currently aint very much. So the only circumstance in which it could *ever* become a wind-powered car is if the *entire UK* was powered by the wind, which isn’t likely or even neccessarily preferable as there are many different types of renewables, not just the wind, and there needs to be at least some balance as the wind isn’t the most reliable of power sources.

      I long for the day when the whole UK does use renewable energy and therefore by default a car that is electric is automatically greener, but in the short term the only advantage would be that the money I would pay to run it would go to Ecotricity and be invested in renewables rather than going to some big oil multinational.

      In the mean time it seems like hydrogen fuel cells are closer to providing cars that don’t produce *any* emissions (except the water, obviously!).

      All the innovations around what you’re doing are great, and good luck with the publicity, just be careful that the fact you’re completely pulling the wool over people’s eyes doesn’t backfire – I too would recommend at least slipping in somewhere (on the main website rather than at the bottom of a 15 page comments section) that it is for all intents and purposes just a very cool electric car.

      All the best anyways (honestly!),

      Saz

        • dave

          Saz, with all due respect you don’t really know what you are talking about. Hydrogen cars are not ‘greener’ – where does the hydrogen come from? Hydrogen is just an ‘energy carrier’ like electricity. And at least we have an infrastructure for delivering electricity, whereas we don’t for hydrogen. As I said in my previous post, read this book (freely available) http://www.withouthotair.com which explains everything.
          Also, electric cars are better TODAY (in the UK) because the power train of an electric vehicle is 3-4x more efficient than a petrol or diesel vehicle. Yup, petrol and diesel cars turn about 75% of the energy in the fuel into waste heat. Brilliant eh! Most people driving around don’t realise this because oil is (relatively) cheap compared to the ‘true’ cost. We soon will though…

    • Saz

      With all due respect Dave, “you don’t know what you’re talking about” isn’t a very polite or constructive way to respond to somebody’s views.

      I take your point that electricity can be better than oil, all I’m saying is that at the moment, the electricity we use *isn’t* 100% green, just looking at the indicator on the ecotricity website, the figure it has for the UK grid as a whole right now is 4.2%. So any electric car, including Dale’s, would be a 4.2% wind-powered car, even assuming the whole percentage of our renewables came from wind, which obviously they don’t. It would be a 74.4% fossil-fuelled car, which is still obviously better than the ninety-plus percent fossil-fuelled cars we have now, even without the loss of efficiency (you’re right, I didn’t know that figure, so thank you!)

      I wasn’t saying that electricity is a worse way to power a car and that we should all stick with petrol, that’s just silly. The point I was making was that, while I accept that Dale might be trying to make people imagine what could be rather than what is, i.e. getting people to dream of a UK where the entire electric grid was powered by renewables and specifically wind, that just doesn’t come accross. It is still an electric car, not a wind-powered car, and in my view the wording should be changed.

        • dave

          Sorry Saz, it may not have seemed a constructive comment, but it was true regarding your comments on hydrogen.

          You’re right, perhaps ‘wind powered car’ is a little misleading. But I still submit that we absolutely need electric cars, and they will give us a benefit right now, even with our fossil grid. We also need grid decarbonisation. These two things can happen in parallel though. Also electric cars can help to balance supply and demand in a renewable energy powered grid.

    • harry

      dam u stole my idea o well im only 16 good job but my design was way better

    • harry hinze

      dam u stole my idea o well im only 16 but im sorry to say my design was way better

        • Xena

          OMG, 5 times, same comment! :o)